I'm instructing in a new (to the pilot/owner) 150-150. Couple of questions have come up.
Fuel pump: Why does the manual say to turn it on for landings and for short field take-offs, but off for normal take-offs?
I've read the 150-150 is not certified for spins. Also read that it enters a flat spin, only recoverable by tail-chute. Seems to me that more weight up front will increase spin recoveries. What's up?
I too am instructing in a 150 horse converted C-150.
On the fuel pump they were worried about loss of fuel flow at crucial times. Mine says to turn it on during all take-offs and landings.
I heard that originally they were worried about the fuel lines being too small.
Whatever the reason, mine does not need it. But I have the students do it anyway.
I wrote my own full checklist for my 150/150. I included a fuel pump check. Before firing her up, I turn on the master, then turn on the fuel boost pump and look to see if the pressure comes up on the gauge. Then I give the throttle a couple of pumps and turn the pump off. At least I know the system is pressurized and that the pump works. I turn it on with the landing light just before taking off (with students). I have run really low on fuel a couple of times and lost fuel flow with steep banks. In that situation the boost pump helped her run until the fuel slothed back over.
As for the spins, they were never tested and certified with a 150 horse so the spin testing was never done. Thus no spins.
Plus some of the STCs call for added weight in the rear of the plane when they load that 150 horse in the front.
I have spun mine and I am still typing. The problem I had was that the speed built up very fast on the recovery and it was easy to get to or just past red line before the pull up was complete.
I also have a 15 gallon O&N aux fuel tank just behind the seat. When that tank is loaded with fuel your CG is further aft than you want it while spining. So you could go flat.
Plus remember, even in a stock whimpy engine 150, you want to be half tanks and light for spin training. (utility cat) The 150 horse plus two guys is never anywhere near utility Category.
I can send you my full check list via e-mail if you like.
One thing about spins you probably already found out with the 150 horse C-150 (some people call them the Sport Hawk).
When teaching pwoer on stalls, the aircraft has too much power and you exceed the 30 degrees of pitch that is required for most power on stalls. So I only use 1800 to 200 RPM. This is OK with the practical test standards.
Then you still get a pretty steep pitch angle that requires lots of right rudder to keep from going over when she finally breaks.
Another little thing you can use is set up at 15 or 20 degrees of flaps and hang on the prop at 2100 rpm or so. Then when the plane is down to 40 mph and hanging on the edge of a stall, reach over and kick the flap switch up.
This puts it into a stall right now and usually the student or BFR customer has all of their attention on right rudder and getting the nose down.
I had one student (19) who freaked out and stumped the left rudder with his RIGHT foot. So over into a spin we went. He later said he was rying to hit the brakes like in his pickup truck.
Last month I had a 20 year old who can't tell right from left, while in a 60 degree bank he was told to snap her leevl on a specific heading. So he goes backwards on me and pulls the yoke one way while his feet go the other. So we ended up in a skid then slip while banked over at 90 degrees.
I am going to put a big sign on the panel with arrows that says right and left....
I have a C152/150hp (O320-E2D) and would appreciate a copy of that checklist... Also, I plan to use my aircraft for banner towing but can only get 2200 rpm at the wall with sign in tow...
Can anyone refer me to someone with experience towing banners with a C150/150 or C152/150? I know I need a flatter pitch prop, but everyone at Cessna, the prop manufacturers and various prop shops just keep saying that only the TM7458 is authorized for my STC. (in the book, it is. But in the real banner towing world a flatter prop is required...)
Thanks in advance to all!
Mike Johnson
Manila, Philippines
I own a c150m that has been modified with an Avcon engine conversion (0-320) way back in 75. somewhere along the line the stc went awol. I do have the original 337 associated with the mod but no way to validate to my own satisfaction the stc instructions and performance changes are properly posted and complete. Contacting AVCON conversions has proved near impossible. Can any one suggest where i might find a copy of this stc? Spins prohibted? POH changes, placards,engine insruments? approved checklist, etc.
thx
Al Hyde
75e hidden valley airpark
denton tx
76208
940 321 4557
I own a 75 150/150, and from what I understand the main reason they require the fuel pump on for take-off is that you can climb fairly steep especially if you have a full STOL kit like I have and you can starve the engine.. I have a cherry 66 150F standard 0-200 and it is a night and day performance difference, ya just need to really plan the trips..
I'am flying a C150/150 now for 2 years in banner-towing business in Belgium
I flew the C150 in all possible configurations and I didn't need the electrical fuel pump. But anyway it is a good practice to use it in "unusual attitudes" like during the banner towing pick-up , or very steep turns.
I agree that the angle of attack is phenomenal , I can have several photo's to prove that the climb is spectacular (not only in a climb after a dive)
For banner pick-up we approach at around 65 mph and then full power up to near stall speed this gives the impression on photo's the A/C climbs with a 45 or more degree angle.
Yours
and I can agree that the O&N aux fuel tank full with 1 (heavy) passenger is not within the CG enveloppe
I would love to see a photo of the climbout. I am also considering a 150 hp upgrade.
Not sure if you are aware, but you can post photos on the "Photo Gallery" on this site. Just use the drop down box under "Features" and follow the directions. Look forward to seeing your 150/150 in action.
jim I realize this is and old post but i have a 75 150/150 would love to have your check list. I really like this plane and also have the stole conversion the only draw back is fuel burn THANKS CHARLIE
I just bought a 1973 C 150/150. I want to take lessons in it to learn how to fly. My instructor/flight school has required me to come up with weight and balance info. Also he wants me to provide performance data. Can anyone help me with this. I understand the weight and balance information is supposed to be placed in the airplane--would anyone be able to email that info to me at roybrad2@juno.com?
So, out of curiosity, and the fact that I am thinking of getting a 150/150 to banner tow, but also as a plane for my wife and I to use when not towing, what is the fuel burn?
To answer the question about why a "fuel pump on for takeoff" is required for the 150/150- it stems from 14 CFR 23.955, which states, in part:
23.955 (b) Gravity Systems. The fuel flow rate for gravity systems...must be 150 percent of the takeoff fuel consumption of the engine.
(c) Pump systems. The fuel flow rate for each pump system ...must be 125% of the fuel flow required by the engine at maximum takeoff power approved under this part.
When you measure fuel flow during testing, the way they do it is to put the plane up on blocks, and tilt it back into the climb that is most critical for fuel flow. In most cases the "Worst Case Scenario" one can calculate is the angle of a short field takeoff, followed by a climb at the "best angle of climb" angle.
Because of the diameter of the fuel system tubing, it was orignally designed to meet the 150% requirement of a Continental O-200, there isn't enough fuel flow to meet the reg if the engine is a 150 hp Lyc climbing out at short-take off/ best angle of climb. It simply does not meet the 150% required flow for a gravity system.
Rather than replumb with larger diameter fuel lines all the way from tank to carb, in order to have a fuel system capable of delivering 150% of the engine's need for a gravity system, ... the STC holder designed it with a fuel pump. That only needs 125% flow rate.
Therefore, they don't HAVE to meet the 150% flow rate regulation, they only need to meet the 125% of a plane with a pump.
I am looking for information on the weight and balance for this 150/150 conversion. I am tempted to add weight to the tail but am concerned about the flat spin or the centrifugal force that far back. I would need to put around 10 lbs by the tail. Any info. would be really helpful.
chester
I know this is a topic older than I am,dirt, but after the recent loss of my 48-140, Im considering a 150 with a possible up grade to the 150 hp. Who holds the STC for that, and what is involved with it? Is anything lost in the way of handling,and what is the gain in kts
I probably going to buy a C150 in Surinam and have to fly it all the way to Curacao. Since there are not that many airports enroute, I will probably have to install an aux tank. You mention in your story about a 15 gallon aux tank. Where can I get information about such a tank?
Looking forward for your reply and thank in advance,
Paul Verbist
HELLO FRIENDS,
DOES ANYONE OUT THERE HAVE ANY INFO ON FLOAT FITTINGS FOR MY CESSNA 150/150, 67G MODEL.I REQUIRE THE FITTINGS THAT ARE MOUNTED ON THE AIRCRAFT. ALSO, WILL A SUPER CUB PA18 FLOAT ATTACHMENTS FIT MY 150?
ANY HELP AND COMMENTS WOULD BE APPRECIATED.
SAFE FLYING FRIENDS, JIM
I own a 65 c150 and i would like to know the honest numbers for take off and landing with the 150 or 160 hp conversion ? Also does the tailwheel conversion change t/o land distance ? What kind of load can one carry with the engine upgrade?
Please any one just honest numbers so I can start or stop this dream of mine.
I happen to be selling a 1973 Bush conversion 150-150. It has been a great airplane for me but I am now moving up to a Mooney. I have owned it for over 10 years now and absolutely love it. Anyone interested should email me at csarles@gmail.com.
I also have some weight and balance info and an updated IFR checklist if anyone needs it.
tengo proyectado convertir mi cessa 67/150G con engine original O200 converted a engine Lycoming O320, para lo cual necesito comprar la papeleria del STC respectivo.
Edgardo Flores
Chile
Hi all we are currently fitting 150 hp into a C-150 and would like to know if anyone could send some pics of the cowling(nose bowl) as we seem do differ from the stc as far as fitment goes. Many thanks,Sean
I have a 1978 152 aerobat and would like to have more fuel capacity for trips. I have the standard tanks . What are the options for long range tanks. I am not crazy about having a fuel cell in the baggage compartment. Can I have larger tanks for main tanks?
Flint aero manufactures tip tanks for 100 series aircraft that adds 24 gallons of fuel. The tanks are installed in the outboard wing bay. They retail at aprox $4300 + labor. see www.flintaero.com
I have the motor mount, cowlings, and engine 0320E2A with the engine driven fuel pump, nose gear and other misc. parts for this conversion. The engine has 800 smoh 72-74 lbs comp.
If anyone is interested in making me an offer, feel free to call me @ 509 995 5523.
or email;
tomstoyflyer@earthlink.net
All located in Spokane Wa
Does anyone have the Performance Specs for hte 150 hp conversion of the C150? I'm looking to buy a C150 w/150hp for a very short field - 1400 ft. Trying to determine if this configuration can handle it.
