I have a 172, on leaseback to flying school. it is coming up on 2500 hours and they are saying it HAS to have the engine replaced or rebuilt. there is nothing to indicate that the engine is not working properly. all maintenance has been done, 50 hour and 100 hour. does need a couple of CUPS of oil before the next change though. Is it true, it has to be rebuilt to the tune of 25,000? Need some help. I don't want to fix something that really has lots of useful life. I have articles that say the worst time for failure is less than 150 hours, and over 2500 there are very few problems, unless there are some symptoms. thanks
The stickler is that you have the airplane at a flight school. Liability issues usually come to a head. I have been a Director of Maintenance at a number of flight schools and the standard for overhaul is 2K hours, no exceptions. The Recomended time between overhaul for your engine is 2K hours and if exceeded it will not hurt anything, however, most lease backs and flight school aircraft follow recomended overhaul times for the engines. I have overhauled numerous engines and the longer they are operated past TBO, and more things are worn beyond limits and have to be replace rether than reused. If there were something to happen to your airplane with a student flying it, the lawyers would have a field day with that case. Lately some Insurance providers are insisting on a 2K overhaul or they will drop you. As the owner of the airplane you have the option to have the engine overhauled rather than let the flight school handle it. Read the lease agreement, some of them specify engine overhaul times...
-Tom
thank you for your reply. My concern is that they charge more than any one else in the area and I suspose I need to find some one else to do the overhaul. I understand an "estimate" may not be real accurate, but 25,000 seems really too much, eventhough I was warned. I guess I can just take it off lease back, and fly it myself. the lease agreement doesn't say they have to perform maintenance, it just must be proper parts in accordance with maintenance manuals for the aircraft and the FAA rules etc. So I guess I am looking or will just get my license and and then maybe go for a "partnership" of some kind. MD
Martha
Sounds to me like the quote you received was for a factory remanufactured or factory overhauled engine. This is not a bad thing as a factory warranty is priceless. An overhaul can be had for around 12/15K and still get a quality piece. Where are you located?, as there are many shops that will do the overhaul with parts for around 10K. (Keep in mind that the Remove / Reinstall labor is around 30 hrs) The first thing to do is find a HONEST mechanic... The partnership thing probably would not be too enticing as the engine is high time and a lot of prospects look for low time engines. A high time engine is not necessarily a bad thing but when the engine starts to nickel and dime you, it will eat $$$ quick
I live in Bakersfield, Calif and the only people who have worked on the plane are the mechanics that work for the flight school. they really charge a lot for everything. How do I find any one else that would be certified to Cessna standards and satisfy the flight school, and perhaps also be honest? As soon as I am not haveing to take lessons, it may be cheaper to just make the payments and not mess with the lease back. The lease agreement does not specify, only that they can do 5000 worth(worth is a matter of opinion ?) of repairs, with out getting my approval. I would be able to fly it somewhere to get a job done, which might be cost effective. Is a "factory warranty" really worth the cost? MD
I have a 1978 C-172N with the Lycoming 0-320 H2AD engine. It was overhauled in 2004 by One Stop Aviation in Oceanside, CA. The cost of the overhaul was $12,000. One Stop has a good reputation, and I think if you fly your plane into Oceanside airport, they will remove, overhaul, and reinstall the engine for you. They also make house (hangar) calls, but I don't know if they go as far as Bakersfield. They do go regularly to Chino (where I am based). Hope this helps.
appreciate your reply. talked to another maint co today and they said a rebuilt engine would be 20,200 from the company in the "trade a plane magazine", (plus 600 for shippling from texas, but then there isn't calif sales tax)and 1500 labor plus parts, hoses and engine mounts.
The place in Oceanside, would be worth investigating, (would be nice to be there now its over 100 here) Maybe the inherant value would be better to get the rebuilt factory waranty. Its going to be a difficult decision. But I have to get my ticket before they tear the poor plane apart, going for pre check ride evaluation later this week. MD
Factory Warranties do increase the inherent value over a shop overhaul, When you start doing the numbers there is not a whole lot of difference in prices. The last Lycoming that I quoted, the difference was about $1200 (over a factory Overhaul). One thing you may consider, after the engine is overhauled, is to increase the hull value of the airplane as the value will increase with a fresh engine.
What is "hull Value"? I talked to another co yesterday, they get rebuilt engines from a place in Texas, mine Would be about 20,200 plus shipping 600 or so, so no calif sales tax. install is 1500 (which would be the amount of the tax) including take out, plus hoses, motor mts about 1200. that is almost the 25,000 my flight school said off the top of their head. I need a better estimate from them, because they are 30% higher on everything than some other places. Is their a difference in warranties, from a cessna certified mechanic or just a regular mechanic? I may be a woman, but I can read and maybe sort this out, especially with help from other pilots. thanks so much MD
Hi Martha
"Hull Value" is the value of the airplane it is often called Hull insurance, why... you got me... The difference in the warranties is in comparision to a car lot operated by "Joe" compared to a full service dealership, Joe being the average engine shop compared to the factory. This is possibly the largest investment, next to the airplane, that you will make. Ther are a lot of engine shops out there that do excellent work but cannot compete with a factory warranty.
I am not a pilot, just an A&P with an IA with 25 years experience, I like to help people and it makes me furious to see honest folks get ripped off. Any further help needed let me know...
