Engine Failure on Takeoff: Should you always go straight?

Rocky Landsverk

Your thoughts on this article?

https://cessnaowner.org/engine-failure-on-takeoff-what-to-do-next/

Should you ALWAYS go straight as pilots are often taught?

we'll be using selected feedback in our magazine article.

thank you.

fogflyer

One aspect that must be taken into account for the "impossible turn" is that there is a noticeable difference in lift when operating at higher runway elevations vs. sea level elevations. If there is not adequate height above the runway, you better continue on straight ahead. Many airports or strips are located in terrain that will not support anything but straight ahead. Montana pilot

Scott Sellers

Joel covers this topic well here. Having had my share of engine failures on departure I keep my father's words in mind- "If you keep the nose below the wings you won't get hurt." He graduated from Embry Riddle in 1953 where they taught engine out scenarios with this approach. I'll add an additional comment and that is to keep you head outside the cockpit - presuming you are on the upwind/climbout, this is not the time to be fumbling with your iPad looking for emergency checklists.
-Scott Sellers

SpyPlane

Don't want to be too critical here, but I have two quibbles with this article:

A. The first two points mentioned in "Recommended Techniques for the Return Maneuver" relate to playing with the boost pump and switching fuel tanks. Those are good ideas, but I would think the very first thing to do is lower the nose...immediately...and lowering the nose should be emphasized. The pilot will lose at least two or three seconds because of the startle effect, and then would lose even more time messing with the fuel system. Way better to get the nose pointed down immediately.

B. If I understand the training suggestions in the article, it sounds like the training maneuver will start with a simulated takeoff at 500 ft. AGL...then climbing an additional 500 feet to 1,000 ft. AGL, eventually resulting in getting lined up with the "runway" (the road). The main problem with this is that it doesn't give the pilot the real feeling of making the tight and relatively steep bank(s) necessary to complete the maneuver while in close proximity to the ground...and so the feeling is much different than the real-life maneuver would be.

I'm not saying pilots should risk their lives while practicing, but I think being down closer to the ground during practice, will leave the pilot better prepared for what it's really going to be like when an engine really does quit a low altitude.

tkingston

You say turn left NOT into the wind,
Not toward a taxi way, not away from lower obstacles on your left that you hopefully briefed for?

dredpiratedanno

I very much disagree with the "return to the airport" argument. Seventeen of my friends died in 1985 when a Caravan's engine quit shortly after takeoff due to water in the fuel. Had the pilot continued straight ahead and "crashed" the airplane in a pasture between trees, some of them may have lived. Attempting a very difficult low altitude maneuver might work, but chances are high that it won't and you will kill not only yourself but everyone else on the airplane along with you, all 16 in some cases. Every single engine takeoff should be considered and straight ahead emergency if the engine quits. Otherwise, disaster ensues. Been there, done that.

Bret_H

My CFI and I practice this. Turning into the wind is critical. I can’t make it around if I turn with the wind. I make a mental note on each takeoff which way I need to turn so it’s one less thing to think about if the worst happens.

Scott Sherer

Good points, all. Thanks for all of your comments

howardg

In an 182 you can not do a turn back in 500 ft. The altitude loss is greater than that...Probably the same/greater for a 210/206, etc. A 172 can probably do it.

howardg

A good video and a worksheet to use with your plane on computing altitude loss is at https://www.captainschiff.com/efat

bluebarron

Aviate,Navigate,Comunicate

Joel Turpin

https://forums.cessnaowner.org/discussion/comment/4767#Comment_4767

As mentioned in my article, I am based on a mountain top airport and there are no options for a safe off airport landing straight ahead. I mention that the return maneuver is one of two options, and do not say it is the ONLY option.

Joel Turpin

https://forums.cessnaowner.org/discussion/comment/4769#Comment_4769

Unless you take off with a significant crosswind, your will have a headwind when the engine fails. The turn direction should be to the left for the reason stated in my article. Also, if your initial turn is into the wind, once you make the 270 degree turn, you will have a tailwind which could cause you to overshoot the field.

Joel Turpin

https://forums.cessnaowner.org/discussion/comment/4763#Comment_4763

https://forums.cessnaowner.org/discussion/comment/4767#Comment_4767

Joel Turpin

First, I stated in my article that there are TWO OPTIONS for engine failure on takeoff, land straight ahead, and attempt to return to the airport. The article explores the second OPTION. I never said the return was the only way, but did state that in some cases, landing straight ahead is the only option. I also said it is the pilot in command's decision as to which one to use. No disrespect to your friend, but maybe he made the wrong decision, or did not fly the return maneuver correctly. As stated in my article, the training facility I use for recurrent simulator training and check ride teaches professional pilots how best to fly the return maneuver, and it is those techniques that I pass on to the non-professional pilot in case the return to the airport is the choice. I say several times in my tutorial that IF THE DECISION IS MADE TO RETURN, here are some techniques to enhance the chances of success.

Joel Turpin

https://forums.cessnaowner.org/discussion/comment/5042#Comment_5042

https://forums.cessnaowner.org/discussion/comment/5041#Comment_5041

Joel Turpin

Let's say you take off with a significant right crosswind and have an engine fails. Keep in mind that right after takeoff, you are still on runway heading. Turning right 270 degrees to end up on a base leg means you will pick up a significant tailwind during the turn. By the time you finish the 270 degree turn, the airport will be way behind you and you may not even be able to see the runway. And that right turn will delay your picking up the airport visually as it will be on the opposite side of the cockpit windows. This is why I recommended a left turn so that after about 90 degrees of turning, you should pick up the airport.

caiofbraga

I like the fact that Joel emphasized that "the best and safest method is to practice on a flight simulator". I have been taking this advice ever since I built my own home flight simulator 3 years ago. Actually it's the main use of it (also use for ATC proficiency ie PilotEdge). My choice of simulator is X-Plane due to the fact that it has been around for more than two decades with flight envelope and physics closest to reality. Have performed many scenarios using a C172 and most of the time I can return to the field above 500ft AGL. My 2 cents is that it can be done and it's dependent on few variables and aircraft (This has been done by AOPA showed on a video last year, I believe). You all have touched on the variables that may affect this maneuver and the best place to test/simulate is in your chair. Ps: I have corroborated the results of the simulation by actually flying the maneuver at altitude with headwind at 3,000ft, climbing 500ft and using a road below for reference. Always made the road. Pic of my home sim below to illustrate.

Scott Sherer

Wow, that looks really nice. I'm envious. Do you have a flight attendant bring you a beverage once in a while?

striggi@gmail.com

I learned to fly in Switzerland (LSZG) where almost all airports don't have a std traffic pattern due to terrain or developments. Here every situation is fundamentally different. In LSGS for example you are squeezed between 12000 ft mountains which limit your turn. On my P210N SOP checklist I have a checkpoint "take off briefing". Here you communicate to you co-pilot or to yourself what you intend to do when an engine failure occurs below 500ft AGL and what above. The point is that you have a plan.

And I agree to train several of such scenarios in a simulator. I "died" 4 times until i had mastered the return to the field at 500ft AGL.

Andy, N210VT, KBTV

Scott Sherer

Thanks Andy, I'm going to add that to my checklist this week.

Curio-averse

Joel: nice article. You clearly made your turn back decision and established your key parameters waaayyy before your take of in the PC12 occurs at your home base. How do you make that same decision at an airport with DA greater than 10,000' and gusting crosswind winds 45 degrees (GF 60% of GTOW stall speed) from your departure runway? Does your decision height change from aft loaded GTOW vs aft loaded 70% of GTOW (within envelope!!)? How would you customize your turn back decision from a 1500' runway with DA of 5000', winds and loading as above? It seems to me that the pre-takeoff decision requires some customizing to be real world useful... unless power available is never a factor.

Scott Sherer

Thanks for your comments!